Soft Skills Sell: The Overlooked Advantage in Business Growth with Ryan O’Keeffe

Dec 4

EPISODE: 24

As the year winds down, it’s easy to hit pause on your business development efforts. But what you do now will shape your Q1. This episode is your invitation to take inventory, revisit how you're showing up, and bring more intention into the way you lead and sell.

Ryan O’Keeffe is a founder, father, and people promoter. He leads Jago, the first and only BCorp-certified personal brand consultancy helping purpose-led leaders gain clarity on who they are and the value they bring to the world—so they can lead with more presence and impact.

We explore how emotional intelligence shows up in the sales process, and why soft skills are your most underrated business advantage.

In this episode, we cover:

Why your personal brand is already speaking for you—intentionally or not
How emotional triggers show up in sales (and what to do with them)
Why EQ matters more than polish when building trust
What most founders get wrong about visibility
How to assess your brand with one simple (free) tool

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE HERE 👇🏻

Speaker: [00:00:00] You can achieve those dreams that you think at the moment are way out of reach, I promise you, you know, because I've achieved them. Rewind five years ago, that was just a dream. That was just a thought, a vision for intention, and putting myself out there and showing people. The whole me. Some people don't want that, but the right people will.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Sales is Service. The podcast designed to help you change your mind about sales. Literally, I'm gonna help you change the way you think about selling. I'm Tam Smith, your host sales Bessie and pitch partner next door. You're tired of bros with biceps telling you how to crush a million dollars in your sleep or battling imposter syndrome on your own.
You've come to the right place. All you need to do is listen, then take action. No gym membership required. Let's get started.
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Alright, let's get into the episode. Hey, and welcome back to Sales As service as I am recording this, we are [00:02:00] stepping deep into the holiday season and with it there is a natural tendency to slow down. Calendars get lighter, clients go quiet. And it is very tempting to hit pause on all your business development efforts, even if just for a little while.
But let this be your friendly reminder. What you are doing now shows up 90 days from now. So if you wanna go into the new year, feeling clear. Steady and momentum driven. You can't afford to sit the season out. This is the perfect window to take inventory on. What worked well this year? What do you want more of and what can you chalk up to a Hey, tried that didn't work.
And if you're a founder, a business owner, it is also the perfect time to run a little personal brand health check, whether you've built it intentionally or not. Believe me, it's there and it is shaping how people connect with you, refer you, hire you, and remember you. Your personal brand is how you show up.
It drives lead generation, networking, relationship building, and talent attraction. But more [00:03:00] than that. It's a reflection of who you are and what you stand for, and today's guest knows a thing or two about that. Ryan O'Keefe is a founder, father, and people promoter. He's the creator of JO, the first and only be core certified personal brand consultancy.
Helping leaders get clear on who they are and the value they bring to the world so they can lead with more impact and intention. We're talking about emotional intelligence, personal visibility, and why your presence. Not just your pitch is what drives trust. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I just, let's kick this off by just telling us, in your words, who do you help and how do you serve?
Speaker: Who do I help and who do I serve? We help entrepreneurs, business leaders, executives, and teams to help raise their profile, help raise their profile, help scale their reputations.
And in turn to increase their commercial opportunities, whether that's attracting new business or attracting talent or raising their [00:04:00] profile to advance 'em in their career professionally, then that is what we do and we try to do it in, I say we try, we do do it in an authentic manner. We take the right steps in order to break these people down so they understand themselves and in order to like represent themselves, they need to understand themselves more deeply.
So we have a methodology that takes them through that. At the end of it, they're confident to put themselves out there in a way that will represent them accurately, but also serve them for the long run.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You have such a, that's really what. Attracted me initially to this conversation 'cause you have what I think is such a unique approach to personal branding, blending emotional intelligence and brand strategy.
How did that evolution happen?
Speaker: How did we end up with eq? It's a really, really good question. We fell into personal branding first and foremost through working with a client that we thought was a branding project, but it ended up being a personally planning project. That was five and a half years ago, and I've been studying emotional [00:05:00] intelligence for.
Nearly, I'd say nearly 17, 18 years, initially through the lens of sales. I landed upon it within my career at sales, at Yellow Pages when they were like the kingpin of marketing in the UK and also globally. So I'd al Al always been passionate about the benefits of emotional intelligence in terms of connecting with people more deeply and building trust so that that knowledge and that experience and that passion.
Was really relevant when we created this business model of, of helping people build their personal brands, right? Because ultimately what we're trying to do with these, these people that we work with is help them to build more trust and respect with their audience. So we felt that. Emotional intelligence.
Having that awareness around how we're showing up to the world was absolutely fundamental to building an authentic personal brand, a thriving personal brand that's gonna serve you in terms of attracting the market that [00:06:00] you're serving.
Speaker 2: And when you talk about personal brand, like kind of differentiate, you know, brand versus personal brand and I think maybe folks listening think, you know, personal brand is only important if like you're the face of a brand or the face of a company.
But like why this like personal brand? Is I important for really every professional?
Speaker: Yeah. I mean we we're used to branding and branding is basically creating a position in the market with your company. It's about. Being synonymous with something when you are not in the room. So how you feel about a certain product, whether that's a global product like Apple or your local high street coffee shop and how they make you feel when you walk in there.
That's brand. You know that, that sense of feeling and attachment to something that you value. And so, you know, there's been this, this term, a personal brand now, Tam, for the last, you know, five or six years, but. It's not really a new phenomenon. You know, people are doing business with other people for many a years.
You [00:07:00] know, most big businesses, service-based businesses have have done business by taking people out to lunch and building connections through people's personal interactions. So personal brand, because of social media and because of, I guess, a sense of distrust with big institutions now people are following people more than ever.
Therefore you are seeing the rise of, you know, key figures within global organizations, certainly more, more prominent. You can see that with people like, you know, Tim Cook, you've probably got more followers than Apple, uh, and so people are following people. They wanna know what the founders or leaders or businesses are standing for and what they're saying.
And so there's been a lot more shift. There's, or there's been a huge shift towards people saying, well. I run a business, or I work within a business, I've got, you know, a responsibility to shape the brand positioning. I've got a responsibility to generate [00:08:00] sales. I've got a responsibility to influence in a positive way.
So how do I do that? And so personal branding is basically the, the intention. The activity behind key people within an organization to put themselves out there. Whether it's networking, speaking, podcasts, and social media content, video content, written content. But I also believe it's not just that, it's not just content or the obvious activities that you might do.
I think personal brand is everything. Whether the way you speak to people, the way you hold yourself, the way you turn up to a meeting is gonna add to the compounding. Impression, perception of you as an individual, which is super powerful.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. How, how do you define the ingredients of a strong personal brand?
Like how do you define that?
Speaker: I define it in, in a few different ways. For me, it's about. Having a deep [00:09:00] self-awareness of who you are at your core. Many people do the activity without actually doing the inner work, and therefore they end up sounding like everyone else and they're just adding to the noise.
And that actually probably would've worked 10 years ago just to be active on something. LinkedIn would've changed the game. So having the first Facebook page on yourself or business page worked when it was the first of its of its time. But now we've got many other people building their personal brands.
And by the way, you're not too late if you pull your audience that are listening. There's only still a very small percentage of people that are active on platforms like LinkedIn. So don't be disheartened, but I define it by understanding having who you are at your core by having good awareness of self.
Understanding what your values are, understanding what your commercial value is in terms of your own gifts and talents, and then how to position yourself with intent to the market that you are looking to engage with. That for me builds a really thriving personal [00:10:00] brand. And when you see that happening, you see lots of credibility and lots of respect with that particular individual because they are not scared to be themselves and they understand themselves really, really well.
But they're also prepared to evolve and adapt and not be stuck in a time that they were five years ago, but actually develop through their personal brand. Because they see it as leadership and I, I'm interested in the leadership aspect of personal branding. The leaders that are putting themselves out there and adding value, not what other people might see is the wannabe celebrities or the influences.
I've never been interested in that side. For me, in the business role, personal brand is very much attached to being a leader because if you are prepared to step up and contribute and add value and challenge and be questioned. And join in, then that's a, that's a formed leadership to me.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's interesting in the, [00:11:00] you published a benchmark report and it was really interesting, the statistic that 70% of professionals say personal branding is important, but most struggle to implement it.
Where do you, where, what's the disconnect?
Speaker: The disconnect is basically what I was just, I've been saying is the opposite to knowing who you are at your core and how to position yourself so. The disconnect is at the heart of it. In practical terms, a lack of strategy. If you ask many people, actually we, I think we produced it in the report, the data.
Many people don't have a strategy for the personal brand, which is crazy 'cause they'd have a strategy for the company brand and they would've strategy for other things. But when it comes to one of the most valuable things they'll ever own, which is their reputation, they, they're prepared to take the risk and just.
Have a go and, and, and there are times when you need to just step up and understand that perfection is the enemy of good enough. At the same point, it is, it is important to solidify what you wanna be known for [00:12:00] and why does that matter to our audiences and what are the connecting points and what are the stories and themes that I.
Talk about in order to attract the right people. 'cause without that, it might just be noise and you might be stuck in what I call the echo chamber of death, which is all of your friends liking in your posts and content. But no one's actually, but no one's actually spending money with you because suddenly you've got all your mates who look like you, say for instance, you run an agency and they're all liking your content and that that feels good at first.
That's kind of the first step, the evolution. Your mates like it, dare I say, your mom and dad might like it. And, and then you get to a point where you go, well, that's cool, but I'm over that now. Where, where, where's the money? How, how, how do I generate revenue? How do I serve the best people I can possibly serve?
And that's about intention. That's about representing yourself accurately. That's about showing confidence. Through your personal brand. So I think the reason why people [00:13:00] are struggling to implement it is lack of strategy and knowhow and steps to take. And they might give it a go and then it doesn't it, it doesn't have longevity towards that activity.
'cause full short, they've jumped on a trend or they've followed the cookie cutter approach. But then it says, doesn't really feel good to me. It feels a bit, it feels a bit ick.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to describe it. Is that like the kind of the inflection point you see that when, when your clients that start to work with you, what the inflection point that prompts 'em to get in touch with you is they've, they've kind of tried it on their own and they're, they're kind of beyond the, okay, I'm getting, they're beyond the, like, surface metrics of, you know, likes and they're really looking at, okay, how can I have.
Influence and impact, like, or what are the common inflection points where people like start work with you? And you mentioned, you know, you have a framework and a process. Just touch on like how you approach the personal brand development.
Speaker: So, Tam, typically, a lot of our clients don't wanna build their personal brands that come to us.
That's because they take it seriously and they [00:14:00] realize that they're running amazing businesses and they don't wanna mess things up. So they'd rather go under the radar and be quiet, but they're realizing that that's setting them. For a fail, and therefore they're looking around and saying, well, who can help me raise my personal brand in the correct way with rigor?
So that's an inflection point. We also have people that have tried it, had a go and just like. It's just not getting the cut through and it, and it doesn't feel meaningful to me. So they're the, they're the two, the the two kind of reasons why someone might get in contact with us, but they're realizing the potential of their personal brand and they might be feeling a little bit suffocated because the rest of the team are looking at them and saying, well, you are the leader of this business.
You need to step up because that other business or that other competition. Their two founders are absolutely killing it, and they're getting more followers and all the talent's going to them, and they're getting more pictures than we are or whatever it might be, who in our business is stepping up? So there's a sense of vulnerability with that, with our [00:15:00] leaders and, and our prospects because they're like.
I'm an, I'm an introvert, or I've never done this before. I don't, I just don't like personal branding. I feel like it's an ego trip. So we tend to, we tend to attract the, the, the prospects that are really considering this and are hyper aware of the. The cost of not getting it right.
Speaker 2: Can you share like a particular story where like a before and after, you know, of like a, a transformation that happened as far as kinda weak personal brand and then after it went through the kind of the whole process of development, just the impact that it had on the business.
Speaker: We've got so many example transformation examples where people would probably. Underestimated the prospects that have came to us in terms of their current status. No way would they be a person that could step up and do this. But I kind of like that as well. I like the underdog and the challenge, but they need to be willing.
And we've got one client, I won't mention his name, but they run, they run a, a technical agency that, uh, provided services in the metaverse. So [00:16:00] they were. Keen business that developed software and all that type of stuff. Anyway, this, this particular person wasn't seen on LinkedIn, never put out a piece of content, never done any public speaking.
Really looked like he worked in dark rooms for most of his life, coding all of these incredibly complex like experiences in the metaverse. And they came to me and, and we worked with a couple of the founders and the one that, that I think people underestimated ended up being the guy that was. Up on stage.
12 months later, speaking in front of hundreds of people doing it his way. Not extroverted, introverted, but people listened because they loved his detail producing video content. He said, I'll never do the video. I'll do the writing part on LinkedIn. I'll start posting, but you're never gonna get me to do video.
And then six months later he's doing video. And the video work stop is communication skills because it does when you've got a camera on you or you are invited to a podcast or you are to, you're asked to [00:17:00] speak on a particular thing. Guess what? It sharpens your ability to articulate your key points. So, and that's the way you do it authentically, because if you work with someone that develops you, rather than does it all for you, then you're able to walk the walk.
It's not just a ghostwriter putting out content on LinkedIn, it's, this is Me. Of course you can have help with that. But that particular individual went through a process of collaboration with US development. Strategy and then within, you know, within 12 months they were doing video, they were speaking on stage, and I think within 18 months they ended up selling their business.
A And he and, and he said one of the reasons why I think we sold our business is because we were on the radar, the right people that were looking to acquire a VR metaverse specialist. But because of my content, the fact that I was putting myself out there, that got the attention to the organization. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like.
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Check out all the details in the show notes. This deal runs through December 31st for sales as service listeners, and once the calendar flips, it's gone. Now back to the episode. How do you work with your clients to, you know, do you [00:19:00] intend, do you experience a lot of re, I mean, it kind of sounds like you touched on it with that client, but the resistance to actually understanding why and how important it is to be consistently visible with a strong personal brand.
Do, do you encounter that a lot?
Speaker: I think most people understand the importance to a certain degree. It's only when big things land is they understand how important it is. So it's only when they feel the value of winning a massive deal or getting approached in the dms by a potential buyer of their business or getting asked to speak on stage.
It's only at that point when they realize the potential. Up until that point, it feels like it's all theory. Yeah. This all seems like people. Are turning up and doing the right thing. It's a bit like doing your homework posting on LinkedIn. Is it really generating any business? Are all these people just doing it because they've been hooked into the algorithm, but they ain't generating any conversations with the right people?
And I've met lots of people that I put all the effort in and it's just not working. [00:20:00] So just like anything, you're not guaranteed success unless you, unless you, there's no silver bullet. It's part of the mix. It's part of the mix. Yes, there is a tipping point where inbound starts to happen. Yes, there is resistance.
I hold my hand up. I'm even resistant to being consistent every week. 'cause I find it hard. I'm quite introverted at times and I don't wanna play the game. I don't wanna play other people's game. So I. I find it hard to be consistent, but I have people that hold me accountable in my business, which is good to say, look, you need to step up and produce some content.
We booked a day out for you to do some videos, and in New York, when we was just working last week, the camera came out and said, right, Ryan, it's your turn. I was like, oh, okay. And you, and you have to step up. So there's always resistance because it's hard. It's hard putting yourself out there. It's hard producing content.
It's, it's. You, you have to go through the vulnerability of like engagement up and down. Whether people say they get [00:21:00] affected by it or not, I know most people do. You know, it's built into us as a dopamine reaction to high engagement. But you do learn to get broad shoulders and realize that sometimes the ones that do the biggest numbers aren't the ones that generate the most leads.
And so it's that adjustment like. Not focusing on the wrong metrics. Like a couple of our clients have gone viral from some of the content that we produced with them, and they're like, oh, this is amazing. I'm like, chill, don't get hooked. Don't get hooked on that because you're gonna set yourself up for a full, because now if you expect everyone to go that big, then you're just gonna be disappointed.
And actually, you know, attaching yourself to the wrong metrics can make you sick. It can make you sick because like literally, yeah. Yeah. You're like just stressed. It's like having, having a, you know, a drug, it's high initially and if you keep doing it, you're gonna get sick. So making sure you're going after the stuff that's meaningful, which is rich conversations with your ideal prospects and, and, and great [00:22:00] people in your network.
Like the way we met, right? How we can support each other, how we can learn from each other. That was via LinkedIn. We connected, we had an offline conversation where really the richer, more, deeper, meaningful stuff happened, and now we're having a podcast and we can learn from each other, Tam and just see if we can refer people, whatever it might be.
So that's good stuff as well. But yeah, there's plenty of resistance is what I'm saying. But when people get the right stuff going, then it becomes easier to get them to be consistent if they see the rewards are there. Commercially then. There's less resistance.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. It kind of, what is your, when you put something out there kind of baseline, what is your measurement for success?
Like the KPIs, if you're, you know, that you're watching, that you're determined, okay, hey, you know, this is working or not working, like, what do you watch first
Speaker: conversations, so comments or re-shares? I think they're, they're the couple of things that people would look at mostly, which is, if someone has shared it, it means that it's digestible content, but [00:23:00] particularly what I'm interested in from a sales background.
Is is comments and conversations. So have you had any dms? What are the comments? Like what's the quality of the comments like on your posts? Because you can have a hundred comments that say, love this, but the content's really bland. They've just loved it because it's a funny picture. So I'm looking for the quality of the comments, and I see those as opportunities to have deeper conversations.
So instead of thinking of them as comments, think of them as conversation starting points. Don't overlook the power of the comments because if someone writes you a decent comment, make sure you take the time to make one back because they could be a prospect, they could be your next client, they could be someone that's gonna open the door to, to someone else.
So comments is what I look for. Profile views is another one because people are checking you out, seeing what you're up to, and ultimately, you know, VMs conversations, bookings on your candidly links stuff that's triggering from having a system where you can [00:24:00] see. Traction of people wanting to book time with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And because the whole, you know, goal of digital is to move it, you know, whatever platform you're on to move it off. And actually, you know, it starts connection to your point, start a conversation so you can build a relationship and ultimately, you know, identify opportunity, whether that's okay, great.
Or referral, you know, collaboration or you know, client. For listeners that are looking to lead with more intention in how they show up, whether that's online or in the room, what is. One action step they can take when it, when thinking about their personal brand and defining personal brand.
Speaker: Think about the three things that you could talk about for the rest of your life.
Yeah, think about the three things that you're so passionate about that you could talk about for the rest of your life. 'cause they're not gonna shift. And then think about how that can relate to your audience. So that would be the starting point. 'cause you're not gonna go go much wrong with that. 'cause you're not gonna suddenly do a u-turn for you, Tam.
It might be, I always believe in the power of sales or having [00:25:00] a sales engine, whatever, however that changes and adapts. You're gonna believe that 'cause that's integral to your own experiences and beliefs and evidence of, of seeing that happen. I'm always gonna believe that emotional intelligence is gonna aid us to have healthier interactions, both in our personal and professional life.
That will never change for me. So I can talk about that and not get unstuck or have to take a U-turn, so, so I definitely do that. Can I have another one? Oh yeah. Okay, cool. The other thing I would, I would do is ask yourself the question, what type of leader do I want to be? And maybe look yourself in the mirror to say, where are the gaps?
If I can have another one. It would be ask some of your friends in contacts and colleagues, what I call truth tellers, get some truth tellers around you. And ask them what it is, what, what are the three words that you think would describe me? Or what are the three things that you think I stand for? And start to pick up some patterns and get some [00:26:00] clarity and some confidence from that to say, well, this is what other people are seeing, and see if there are patterns or see if that there, there's mismatches or misalignment and there's work to be done.
So I think. There's a few things there, right? Which is think about the, the three things that you might wanna speak about for the rest of your life that you think are relevant to your audience. And firstly, understand who your audience is, because many people don't, by the way. So work out who your audience is.
Work out the three things that are gonna be close to your heart for the rest of your life that you think will connect you with, with your audience in some shape or another. And then big question, what type of leader do you want to be? And then. Ask people what they think about that and Yeah.
Speaker 2: And don't be afraid of the feedback.
I mean, I think it's, so I appreciate you mentioning how important it's to, you know, invite some outside perspective when you're doing that work. 'cause it's so hard. I've heard the phrase, you know, read the label from inside the bottle. It's really hard to understand how we're [00:27:00] perceived and what, what we're putting out there.
Like said what, what connects and what disconnects and what, you know, might need some. Work and development. Tell me a little bit about how you launched the company and kind of your early start to where you are now.
Speaker: I was a college dropout and I found sales, which many people do, and I loved it because of the meritocracy and sales.
Didn't matter what background or education you, you had, if you hit the number. Then you're gonna get the rewards, which I loved because it was just one focus, hit target, go over target, get rewarded financially recognition. I love that. So I ended up working for the largest sales organization in the UK at the time, which was Yellow Pages.
I went from the bottom in that company selling ads over the phone for 79 pounds. Which is probably what, I don't know, $85 or something in today's money for the American audience. And then I ended up looking after the largest multimillion pound portfolio. And not many people, I don't think anyone had actually gone from, I say the bottom in [00:28:00] sales in that company to the top.
And I did it and And that's where the EQ awareness came from. 'cause it was a manager that said, you need to look at eq 'cause I think that's part of your success. And then I left 'cause I got to the top. And in 2014 I set up my own marketing agency selling similar stuff to what Yellow Pages was, websites and Google and all that type of jazz, digital marketing products.
And then I had some issues, some personal issues with my children. My first son was, was sick and he, we didn't bring him home. And that was two weeks after I handed my notice in and left to set up this company. And I think I proved everyone right when they said, are you sure this is the right time setting up a business?
And I was like, they'll never be a right time. It's fine. And then the shit hit the fan, basically, excuse my French, because I had no income. I'd given up a massive paycheck. I've given up the four by four BMW cars. I'd just got a mortgage that was four times [00:29:00] the previous house. 'cause that's what you do. You get all your finances intact when you're an employee and then you go off on your own.
But not, not knowing that my son, my first child, our first child was gonna be sick so I was doing deals outside Ack Thomas' Hospital, which is by big then if people dunno, the uk. And I just remember looking around at everyone, going about their daily lives thinking you never know what the other person is going through.
And that other person was, was me. So, you know, I say me, me and my family, my wife as well was, was going through it. But in business I had to make a decision to, to, to continue going forward or to go back. And we went forward and you know, we got through it and we established a business and the business was doing well.
We generating clients. Employed a group of people, and our second child was born and it was expected to be a smooth experience because she was monitored and, and it wasn't. She came out and she, she had a brain injury. Grace, my daughter, and again, we didn't bring her home [00:30:00] and we were really scared because the, the future wasn't looking, hopeful the prognosis was, was not promising at all.
But without going into too much detail, she recovered. We, we got through it as a family and that really impacted my work. And it impacted it in a way where I was looking at what I was doing and questioning everything and saying, what do I want to do here? I've now got the courage and bravery to quit everything.
'cause when you've been on your knees praying for a miracle, 'cause your daughter is, you've been told that she won't survive and she does. And you get that second chance. There is no feeling in the world like that. Let me tell you, there is none. You feel like you feel like you've been given a lottery ticket, a winning lottery ticket.
It's life changing, but all you've got is a normal healthy baby back. But to us that was, it was the golden ticket. It was a golden [00:31:00] ticket to a life we were expecting not to have based on what we were told. So in business, I said, well, I'm done. I'm done with doing all this stuff that doesn't really interest me.
I'm gonna go all in on this people thing and help people to develop themselves, to give them the confidence, to educate them, to be better leaders so they can have an impact with their people, both within their businesses and outside their businesses. And it's gonna be done through the lens of personal brands.
So that's what we did. We went all in on it, Tam, and it paid off, niching, paid off, following purpose, paid off financially as well, but also for me, you know, personally. So that's my backstory. And building my personal brand has been tough. You know, I had a great personal brand within Yellow Pages because I was, I was the top performer there.
Without intention. I had a good name because that's what you get, right? He's the, he's the guy. Speak to him. Didn't have to actually do any video or [00:32:00] put any content. Just had to hit the best number and you Yeah. Automatically got a great reputation. Okay. Oh, you Ryan. Yeah, I've seen your results. Oh, you were the, you know, newcomer of the year, or top performer of the year.
It's like, oh, I love that. Like, recognition was amazing because it was probably filling some gap from childhood. But anyway, I loved it. I loved. Gaining respect from my peers. I love gaining respect and trust from my, my, my clients. I loved it when they said to me, do you know what, Ryan? I don't care what you do with the money.
Just get me the results. Was the buzz. Like I never oversold. I always sold what people wanted. Of course, we had a target, but then when that got taken up, my hands and the business was changing, I set my own business up. But for your listeners. Don't make the same mistake that I did, which is I didn't have a personal brand outside that business.
So straight away, when I left, of course, I had those clients that came to me, said, oh, I'm going with you now. I didn't really have a [00:33:00] reputation outside of that, so I felt pretty lonely again because I hadn't build that equity in my, my positioning and profile outside of Yellow Pages. So I had to do that. I had to start networking.
I had to start writing, you know, as a guy that was uneducated and didn't go down any formal education and learn through sales. I said in 2016, I'm gonna write every single day. I tracked it through Grammarly. I think I'm just shy of 10 million words. 10 million words now. And so, so that for me has been an intentional form of, of educating through writing and also then video work.
You know, if I, if I see my first video five years ago, it's like, oh, cringe. You know, it's not who I am. In reality, it lacked energy and I thought I was gonna be better, but I'd stuck at it, done video, and now I'm very comfortable with the camera being put on me. So, and I've spoken in front of many people and ironically, you know, I went back to university not as a student, but as [00:34:00] a lecturer to speak on personal branding.
So I managed to get in that way rather than the, the traditional route of being, being, being a student back. Ultimately Tam, I leveled the playing field with my own personal brand
Speaker 2: and I appreciate you being so transparent. 'cause I think it's this perception that, you know, we see the success stories, you know, when you've arrived and you know there's not enough.
You know, talk about what it takes to get there and it's just, you know. It's just consistent practice, you know, being intentional and deliberate to put yourself out there, like with your writing, with the video, to put yourself out there every day and to practice. And I appreciate you, you know, having, having seen your videos and the quality of the production that you put out there.
I appreciate you saying that. You know, it wasn't always that way. You know, you have to start somewhere.
Speaker: You do. And I'm always, always an advocate for telling the truth of where you have to start. And my whole team thought I was gonna be better because of that sales background. But speaking people one-to-one is very different from delivering to Canberra.[00:35:00]
So I always tried to be the encourager by telling people how it can be for many. And if I can share that from a personal perspective, I will do, because it, it's certainly been a journey for me and I, I've actually struggled a lot more than our clients have. You know, if I'm an apprentice of my own work, then great.
I'm, I'm in a good position to be able to help others get through the struggle. You know, I can be the Jerry McGuire of the personal branding world, right? Because I've walked the walk, but now I'm like behind you pushing you, come on, you can do this, you can rise through it, you can get through this, you can overcome it, and you can achieve.
Those dreams that you think at the moment are way out of reach, I promise you. You know, because I've achieved them. Last week I was in New York, right? Dealing with a high fly at one of the biggest tech companies in the world. Reached out to me to help me with his personal brand. So rewind five years ago, that was just a dream.
That was just a thought, a vision for intention, [00:36:00] and putting myself out there and showing people. The whole me. Some people don't want that, but the right people will.
Speaker 2: Let's jump into the fast five. Your, I can't live without its software or app.
Speaker: It's gotta be WhatsApp. All of our business is done on WhatsApp.
I don't, I don't like looking at email that much. We have groups, business, WhatsApp, client groups, all of it's in there. So if you took that away right now. Our business would fail. Don't do it. Please.
Speaker 2: The best advice you've ever received about sales and business development?
Speaker: I'm gonna have to say it's advice from my dad who knows nothing about sales, and the advice was off the back of me, ask him a question.
When I started Yellow Pages, I followed their script and I didn't sell anything for two weeks, and I was really scared thinking, God, I've gone from a big fish in a small pond. To a small fish in a massive pond. I'm no good at this. And I told my dad, I said, what do you think I'm doing wrong? He said, you're following the script and you're not being yourself.
Not to say the scripts don't work, but you've forgotten about your [00:37:00] character. So be yourself in sales, because that's what stands out. That connection with some individuality or some special essence of who you are is the stuff that sticks.
Speaker 2: Morning routine must have
Speaker: straightaway. Cup of tea, English, breakfast tea, or Irish tea followed by coffee within about 30 minutes.
Speaker 2: Your walk-on song, like the one song that always pumps you up.
Speaker: That would have to be, I, I think there's loads, but Ain't No Stopping Us Now by McFadden and Whitehead. That for me, like that's about overcoming, that's got energy. It's like we can do this. We're gonna push through. Yeah, it And we can't stop it.
Yeah, let's go. Love
Speaker 2: it. And if you only had one hour each day for business growth, how would you spend it?
Speaker: Only one hour.
Speaker 2: Uhhuh,
Speaker: I would say 20 minutes. Working out the one thing that will improve your business today. I would say 20 minutes. Voice messaging your clients [00:38:00] saying hi, been thinking about it, and just checking in with them.
And then I would say 20 minutes. Sending voice messages to prospects.
Speaker 2: Nice. Love it. Thank you so much for being here. Where can folks find you online and connect?
Speaker: You can find me on LinkedIn. Funny enough, rhino Keith at J Go. Or you can just type it into Google Rhino, Keith at J Go. Or if you wanna have a look at our website, you can go to ww dot.
We are j go.com.
Speaker 2: And you actually have a really great tool, the brand assessment. Yes. Personal brand assessment. Tell
Speaker: us a little
Speaker 2: bit about that.
Speaker: Sure. So we have a, a personal brand health check or assessment. It takes about two minutes, and you can find the link to that on our website or on my LinkedIn profile page on one of the featured sections.
But basically it's a series of questions regarding the personal brand chunked up into four key areas and you produce, it produces a personalized report so you can see your scores and then you can see the gaps in opportunities with your own personal brand. [00:39:00] So yeah, if you're thinking about building a personal brand and you dunno where to start, it's a free health check.
There's no hard sales, no one's gonna call you up afterwards. But if you do wanna book a call and discuss it further, then you can book and, and come into one of my links or bookings and we can talk through it. We do have the personal brand benchmark report too, which is, it's the first of its kind. We produced one last year.
We've also just produced one this year, and that is a benchmark report. Sharing insights on hundreds of business leaders with regards to their personal brand, showing the current state of play. I think we alluded to some of the stats within the, the, the conversation today, but you can get hold of that too.
I DMing me on on LinkedIn and I can send you over a PDF copy of that.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Thanks so much.
Speaker: Thank you for having me, Tamm.
Speaker 2: And that's a wrap on today's conversation with Ryan O'Keefe, and here's your sales and service challenge for the week. Take 10 minutes to complete j o's free personal brand health check.
I've done it myself and it's a simple but very powerful way to reflect on how you're showing up and whether your [00:40:00] current visibility aligns with the impact you actually wanna make. You'll find the link in the show notes because whether you're pitching a client. Posting on LinkedIn or simply introducing yourself in a room, your personal brand is already speaking for you.
The question is, what's it saying? And if you liked what you heard, be sure to follow the show and drop us a quick review so more founders and service pros can find us. Until next time, remember. Sales is an act of service. It's about what you give, not what you get, and when you serve well, the ROI always follows.
See you next week.
You've just listened to the Sales of Service podcast. The podcast to help you shift your mindset around selling. If you liked what you heard, be sure to hit subscribe and share it with a. Because we're all about more sales. Awesome. And less sales awkward. See you next episode.

✦ YOUR SALES AS SERVICE CHALLENGE

This week’s challenge is simple but powerful:

Take 10 minutes to complete Jago’s free Personal Brand Health Check.

Whether you’re running solo or leading a full team, your personal brand shapes how people connect with you, refer you, and remember you. This tool helps you reflect on where you're aligned—and where your visibility might need a reset.

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