You've Got Their Email. Now What? A Simpler Approach to Email Marketing with Kieryn Wang

Oct 28

EPISODE: 70

If your email list has been sitting there quietly while you tell yourself you’ll “get serious about email marketing” eventually, this episode is for you.

I’m talking with email marketing strategist Kieryn Wang about how to stop making email bigger than it needs to be. Kieryn sees email as relationship-building: people have already raised their hands and asked to hear from you. Our job is to stay in the conversation. And if an elaborate funnel or beautifully designed newsletter is keeping you from doing that, start smaller. As Kieryn says, “Nobody ever unsubscribed for a short email.”

We get practical about what that looks like, from the first email someone receives to re-engaging a list you may have ghosted for a while.

In this episode, we talk about:

The simplest welcome email you can create when you’re starting from zero
Kieryn’s three-email welcome sequence and why she recommends sending those emails closer together
What makes a useful lead magnet—and why it doesn’t need to be a 75-page ebook
How to re-engage a neglected list and when it’s time to let inactive subscribers go
Simple ways to start segmenting your audience without creating an overly complicated email strategy

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE HERE 👇🏻

Kieryn: One of my favorite things to say as of late, um, it's my new vocal tic that you'll hear me say all the time, is nobody ever s- unsubscribed for a short email. Nobody unsubscribed for a short email. So if that's what it takes to get an email out there to start connecting with your customers, start there.
Like, it doesn't need to be this whole beautiful designed se- I mean, if it is, great, but, um, you can, you can start simple and start somewhere.
Tam: Welcome to Sales as Service, the podcast designed to help you change your mind about sales, literally. I'm gonna help you change the way you think about selling. I'm Tam Smith, your host, sales bestie, and pitch partner next door.
If you're tired of bros with biceps telling you how to crush a million dollars in your sleep or battling imposter syndrome on your own, you've come to the right place. All you need to do is listen, then take action. No gym membership required. Let's get started.
Welcome back to another episode of Sales as Service.
I have a small but very mighty email list, but if I'm being completely transparent, I know I'm not giving it nearly as much love as I could. It's one of those things that keeps making its way onto the to-do list. I should email more consistently. I should revisit my welcome sequence. I should probably create another lead magnet.
And before I know it, I've turned send an email into an entire marketing project, which is exactly why I wanted to have this conversation. My guest today, Kieryn Wang, is an email marketing strategist who believes email can be a lot simpler than we make it. Her approach starts with something we talk about all the time on this show, the relationship.
Someone who joins your email list has already raised their hand. They've said, "Yes, I wanna hear from you." The question is, what do we do with that opportunity once we have it? So today, Kieryn and I are talking about what actually needs to happen after someone joins your list, from the simplest version of a welcome sequence to re-engaging the people you may have ghosted for a while.
We also get into lead magnets, audience segmentation, the metrics worth paying attention to, and why an unsubscribe isn't necessarily a bad thing. And perhaps my favorite reminder from Kieryn, nobody ever unsubscribed because an email was too short. So if email marketing is something you've been making much bigger than it needs to be, this conversation is a good place to start.
Let's get into it.
Kieryn, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to Sales as Service.
Kieryn: Thank you so much for having me. I hear we're gonna talk a little email marketing today.
Tam: Yes, and I am so excited. As I was sharing before we started rolling, I have a, a small but mighty list that I know that I am not giving as much love as I could.
So this is gonna be as much a master class for me as it is for our audience.
Kieryn: I love it. Let's get into it.
Tam: Yeah. And I always like to start these conversations, tell us in your words, who do you help and how do you serve?
Kieryn: I ... That's a great question. I definitely, um, help a lot of beauty and wellness e-commerce brands with their email marketing, and I really like to do it by helping them realize that email marketing is really just relationship building with your customers.
And, and I don't want to s- even say that to, um, put more fear into it. Please, please, it, it can be very easy. The point of what I do with my client work as well as in my membership is to make sure that people understand it can be a lot simpler than you think. One of my favorite things to say as of late, um, it's my new vocal tic that you'll hear me say all the time, is nobody ever s- unsubscribed for a short email.
Nobody unsubscribed for a short email, so if that's what it takes to get an email out there to start connecting with your customers, start there. Like, it doesn't need to be this whole beautiful designed se- I mean, if it is, great, but, um, you can, you can start simple and start somewhere.
Tam: You and I are so on on that.
It so parallels just my whole attitude around sales because I think, you know, we, we make it so much bigger and more intimidating than it needs to be, where at the end of the day it is just connecting with and building relationship with your end client, and it, it's just that simple, and to take that small micro action just to get yourself started.
How did you land on focusing on email specifically for your focus channel?
Kieryn: I started in social media, actually, when I first started marketing, oh God, like 15 years ago. I love social media. I think there's definitely a place for it. I don't think that email marketing is better than social media or vice versa.
They serve different purposes, and they work better together. So, um, I love everything that social media is, but I have really found over the years that you don't have a lot of control when it comes to social media. You can't guarantee who sees your posts. You can't guarantee if your post gets taken down by whatever social platform, or if your account gets taken away by whatever social platform.
I started out in the cannabis industry, and I saw again and again, that was the number one problem is that we always got our account shut down for whatever reason. It was hard to be able to reach customers when you constantly had to be like, "Follow our new account on this handle," and, uh, and you would see losing followers every single time, right?
Because people wouldn't get the news, or they'd be like, "Where did that account go? Oh, whatever." So collecting emails was always the best and most powerful way to make sure that we were still able to get in touch with our customers. We were still able to nurture them. We were still able to communicate if anything happened.
Um, and with that, I realized that email has so many capabilities that I think go really underutilized by a lot of different brands, a lot of different marketing teams, and I just want to share that there's so much you can do with email marketing that's untapped, and if you get in now and, and you start being consistent and showing up for your customers, you'll see a lot of reward when it comes to your conversions and ultimately customer loyalty, right?
Tam: I wanna clarify for listeners when you, you touched on, uh, you know, social media and email serving two different purposes, and then how they, how they complement and work together. Can you clarify that a little bit, how you think about that?
Kieryn: With social media, I think it's very top of funnel, where people are finding you and they're discovering you.
It's a, it's almost like if you're thinking about your relationship with your customer as kind of like a dating relationship, it's your dating profile, right? It's where people find you and they're like, "Okay, I'm gonna swipe right. I'm ready to, you know, learn more." And then email marketing is kind of where you get to go to that middle of funnel.
You start to get them to not just like you, but trust you. You're building the, the foundations. It's almost like, I like to say the welcome series is the talking phase, right? It's where you're like, "Oh, how many siblings do you have? What's your favorite color?" Like that kind of getting to know each other and understanding like, okay, this is the problem this person is facing, like h- this is how we can work together.
This is how we can build sort of a mutually beneficial relationship. And yes, one side of the relationship is you give me money, right? But I am still trying to help you. I created this product, I created this service, whatever it is, as a way to solve a problem in your life, as a way to save you time, as a way to XYZ.
And being able to relate to your customer in that way, that's where email marketing comes in. That's where you kind of get to take it from the conversations, you know, on the dating app into, like, texting, into going on the first date, into having those conversations, taking them home to meet your family for the holidays.
Like, it, it can do, you know, obviously, uh, in, in the context of your product and your service, but that's kind of what we're trying to build here with email marketing. And you can continue to foster that relationship on social as well, right? Social is a really great place to continue the conversation, you know, saying in your newsletters like, "DM us on social media your thoughts, or reply to this email."
Like, I really want to encourage more people to think about email marketing as this two-way street, as this dialogue, versus a broadcast channel of like, "Here are all the promos that we're doing on, you know, this holiday season." Like, I want it to be very much a, a give and take sort of situation.
Tam: Let's talk about the welcome sequence specific- I think this is where people start to overthink, and I know I'm, I tend to do things in extremes, and it's like I am guilty in the past of if I can't have the eight different lead magnets in, you know, eight different sequence, I do nothing. How do you think about that?
Just you, let's just say someone doesn't have anything like that, has not been utilizing email, you know, consistently in their business. Like, the just the basics of what is the, what does that look like at the most basic level?
Kieryn: At the most basic level, what I'm gonna say, uh, first is what I'm not gonna recommend you do long term, but I'm gonna recommend you do it if you're like, "I have a low capacity for this.
I don't have a lot of energy, I don't have a lot of time, but I wanna set something up because I don't wanna keep my customers in this limbo." Right? "I don't want people coming onto my list and not hearing anything and sitting in a waiting room waiting to hear what it is that they signed up for." So this is my first recommendation.
If you're like, "I cannot do anything other than set one email up," okay, this is the one email you're gonna set up. You're gonna go in and you're gonna just put together one welcome email that introduces yourself, introduces the problem that your customer has that your product or service solves, and how your product or service solves that problem.
Maybe give a customer example, maybe give a story, something to give them an idea of, "Okay, this is how my life would look if I worked with you." Just give them a, a little quick intro. Again, it doesn't have to be super long, it doesn't have to be a paragraph, it sh- or a million paragraphs. It shouldn't be. It should be, like, a quick introduction and really focusing on the person, the reader, the audience member, the potential client, the potential customer as the hero of the story, as the hero of this narrative.
With that, I, again, keep it short, keep it simple, get it up. That's all I need from you, okay? Even if it's not like, "Oh my God, I feel so great about this. I love the copy. I love everything." Even if you're like, "Uh, it's not perfect," it's, it's okay. Just get it up. I would rather you get it up than not have anything at all.
When you're ready and you have a little bit more energy to actually start to put together a very decent preliminary welcome series, because your welcome series should and probably will evolve over time. Maybe you'll add a couple on, maybe you'll adjust it, but what I w- where I want you to start is you mentioned the word lead magnet.
Lead magnets, for those that don't know, are essentially a free resource. It's something that gets people to give you their email in order to get this free information, and this free information could be, it could be a checklist, it could be a workbook, it could be a tutorial video. It could be something short, sweet, a quick win, right?
I don't want it to be a 75-page e-book because nobody wants to get their email in and then receive a 75-page e-book as homework. I want it to be, like, three pages. I want it to be nice and short and sweet, something that does one of three things: solves a problem, saves them time, or provides a unique perspective on whatever it is that you're selling.
It could do all three of those things. It could do, you know, a combination, but at least one of those three things. And then you put together the resource, the checklist, the, um, I don't know, five-day challenge. That might be a little bit more involved. But if you, if that's what you wanna do, great. Something that makes people feel like I can implement this easily and I got something out of it.
And if I can get something out of it for free pretty easily, I'm gonna give you my money in order to, whatever it is, paid that you have to give me to incorporate into my life. Lead magnet is number one of, like, put that resource together, set it up, and then email number one in your welcome series should be delivering that lead magnet, and it should be just that simple.
A quick introduction of you, deliver the lead magnet. It doesn't need to have anything else in that first email. I also want you to, in the second and the third email... Everybody is so resistant to this timing, but I'm gonna encourage you to send emails two and three the next day and the day after that. I don't want you to wait four days to send the second email, and then wait another five days to send the third email, because I'm gonna ask you right now, what did you have for dinner last night?
What did you have for dinner a week ago? A week ago, I don't remember anything I did a week ago, but I remember if I signed up for something yesterday. I don't want you to wait, because when someone gives you their email, they're quite literally asking you for more information. They're saying, "I'm ready to receive more information about you, about your business, about what you can do for me."
And that's what I want you to do. I want you to deliver that lead magnet right away in email number one. The very next day, deliver the second email, which is gonna look very similar to that simple email that I told you about, which is to position your reader as the hero. Tell them a customer story about someone who used your product or someone who used your service, how their life changed, what the result was, 'cause I want you to give that reader an idea of, "Oh my God, my life could look like that.
I see myself in them. They're dealing with a problem that I am currently dealing with, and I'm looking for a solution to that problem, and your product is that solution." So I want you to do a simple, you know, it could be a quick customer story. Just give them a little context, anonymize it if you need to, and add that testimonial, add the picture, add the social proof.
Show them how happy this person is now that they have purchased whatever it is you're selling. And then in email number three, I want you to continue to provide helpful resources. Do you have a podcast? What are some of your most popular episodes? Do you have a really, really helpful tutorial blog on how to use your product in your three s- step skincare routine or, you know, whatever it is?
Do you have, like, really popular posts on Instagram or on social? What are, what are the things that a lot of your customers have found very useful and very helpful? And I want you to share that in email number three. Again, it can be short and sweet. It doesn't have to be ... My favorite newsletter is one sentence long.
So it doesn't have to be this super intricate, involved thing. But if you think you can handle that, I want you to set those three emails up for your welcome series and start to see more of those customers converting faster and coming back more often.
Tam: Thank you for reframing the timing. I'm thinking now it's, like, the first thing I'm gonna do in this conversation is go adjust this, the timing on my own welcome sequence.
Kieryn: Yeah. I love that.
Tam: Couple of questions. Are there lead magnets right now that you're seeing, you know, perform better than others, like as far as what the, you know, audience is, um, responding to? And do you have a preferred platform as far as for someone that maybe doesn't already have, have a setup for, you know, what they're using?
Do you have any recommendations?
Kieryn: Yeah. So to answer part one, um, some lead magnets that are performing very well right now are, um, calculators. People love a calculator of like, what is it gonna cost me to not book your service? Or what is it going to cost me to, you know, not take good care of my hair or, you know, whatever it is.
And like, people plug in their information, and they get this like... they spit out this number or whatever, or results, right? And, and people take that and say, "Oh my gosh, I guess I do need to invest in this. I guess I do need to make this purchase." That's been a really popular one, but I understand might be a little bit difficult for a lot of different brands to incorporate.
I always love a good quiz. Quizzes are really easy to set up, a lot easier than you think. I, uh, I should become an affiliate for them. I am not. Uh, Interact, they are a really great qui- quiz platform that I use, um, for my lead magnets, and very intuitive, like very straightforward. You connect it to whatever email marketing platform you're using, and, um, it's gonna make it a little bit more fun, a little bit more interactive.
A lot of different platforms also have sort of that spinning wheel function, right? That's also a nice, exciting gamification. But really anything. And like a sh- a worksheet, a checklist, a, a workbook, a quick, like, empty pages journal situa- Like, a lot of different things are gonna work. And it's worth testing.
It's worth testing, and it's also worth asking. If you're not sure where to start, I say this for everything, ask your customers. Your customers are gonna wanna tell you. They want you to know what would be more helpful. They, they're ready to give you their feedback, so, like, don't be afraid to, to ask them for that.
That's question number one. Question number two, what email platforms do I recommend? Whatever one is gonna get you to start. What- whatever one is gonna get you to get going. I started on Mailchimp. Mailchimp is, like, a very classic. I think for a while it, it started to not get as great of a reputation 'cause it didn't have as many features as some of the other newer platforms that were coming on the market, but Mailchimp is always a nice, like, safe, easy place to start, and you can always migrate to a different platform, you know, whenever you're ready.
So I always say, like, if you need somewhere to start, start with Mailchimp. I personally use Klaviyo for myself and all of my e-commerce clients because I believe it is the most powerful e-commerce platform that's affordable. Uh, because the most powerful e-commerce platform I've ever used is HubSpot.
HubSpot has incredible capabilities, uh, but it's crazy expensive. So I understand if it's not as accessible for most brands. But yeah, I love Klaviyo. Uh, it's got a lot of features in terms of integrations with, like, a Shopify or a WooCommerce, um, but also, like, segmentation, automation capabilities. I, I really love it.
But anything. Flodesk is really great. It's a really popular one, especially with cert- more service-based brands. Also Kit, also Salesforce. Like, there's just, uh, there's so many different ways. Substack is a really wonderful one if you like, um, a little bit more of that writing side versus, um, the, like, imagery and the graphics and things like that.
Um, I, I don't think you could really go wrong. Even if you, like, use ... Okay, I, I take that back. You can maybe. I don't super love in-platform email marketing, uh, uh, functions, like in Squarespace, in Wix, in Square, because they just don't have the capabilities that a dedicated email marketing platform does.
But like I said, if that's gonna get you started, using it in your Squarespace, using it in your Square, using it in your Wix, using it whatever native platform that you're using, I will say start there because that, at the very least, gets you going, and all I really want is for you to start sending emails.
Tam: Absolutely. Like, the, the, just,
Kieryn: just get started.
Tam: Hey, Tam here. Most consultants and service-based founders are great at delivery. Referrals prove it, but referrals aren't predictable, and you've avoided sales because you think you have to be something you're not. Sales isn't pressure or cringey tactics, it's connection, starting conversations, recognizing when you can actually help someone.
The hard part? Doing it consistently. That's why I built the VIP LeadGen Pipeline System. It gives you a repeatable way to book three to five sales qualified meetings each week through relationship first outreach, not cold pitching. Ready to create opportunities on purpose? Book a free alignment call using the link in the show notes.
Sales is a practice. Let's make it consistent.
You know, let's talk about re-engagement. People that have showed interest but didn't convert, or, you know, maybe it's even like a, a list that you have, you know, maybe not been as consistent in your email marketing to kind of reinvigorate. Um, let's... What's the best place to start there?
Kieryn: Yeah. So I mean, I think the first thing is if you haven't been sending emails, start sending them again, and I would send them for three to six months before you start cleaning people off of your list because nobody's really been engaging, so you can't really filter out the people who've been engaging less if there has been no activity.
So I would start sending, you know, if it, again, needs to be once a month in order for you to send something, great. Start there. I would start with what you know you can be consistent about, and I can literally just warm your list back up and, and get back on their radar. If you have been sending, and once you s- warm up that list a little bit better, I really recommend just being okay with releasing people who aren't engaging anymore.
Unsubscribes are, to me, a blessing. I love an unsubscribe, 'cause I'm just like, "Thank you so much for making room for someone better, making room for someone who's probably gonna pay, making room for someone who's gonna engage with my emails, who's not gonna drag my numbers down and my whole list down, and da, da, da, da, da."
I want you to embrace unsubscribes. So in that spirit, taking the people who haven't engaged in the last 90 days, and I would say, like, up to 180 days if your product cycle is a little bit longer, but yeah, in the last 90 days on average, anybody who hasn't opened or clicked an email, I want you to segment them into a, a different list, and I want you to send a very last email that just essentially says, "Do you wanna be on this list?"
It can really be that simple. And if you don't necessarily wanna be that bold or anything like that, you can just say, like, "Hey, we've noticed that you haven't been, you know, opening our emails, and we just wanted to check, like, did you still wanna get this kind of content?" And you can just list, you know, what it is that you're sharing with your customers.
Helpful tips, educational stuff, customer da, da, da, da, da. And ask them, and, and really just say, "Hey, like, if you don't wanna be here, like, you don't have to be here." I mean, you don't have to say it like that, but just give them an opportunity, give them a- the opportunity to reengage if they really want to, like a last chance, and if they don't, just clean them off of your list.
Like, quite literally delete their profiles, get them off, because chances are you're paying for these people per subscriber, right? Most email marketing platforms these days have subscriptions based per subscriber. So you're paying for people who aren't opening your emails, who aren't gonna give you their money.
What are they doing for you? Get rid of them. They're dead weight. Get them off. Get them off your list, and just say, "Thank you so much, and now we can bring in, with our beautiful new lead magnet, more aligned subscribers who we can then nurture and keep as loyal subscribers, and we don't need, we don't need the dead weight.
Sorry."
Tam: What ... You know, j- kind of talking about the metrics, what should we be b- paying attention to? We get kind of hung up on, you know, f- uh, what, you know, the vanity metrics of, like, what looks good versus what is actually gonna impact the, the business.
Kieryn: Yeah, yeah, vanity metrics, oof. Uh, my ... The bane of my existence with many, many a client, especially on the social media side, because social media's just so much more visible.
But if you have ever been victimized by vanity metrics, uh, fear not. They they really don't matter. Um, what I want you to pay attention to, and the reason why I'm always hesitant to say, "Oh, here's the average, like, open rate and click rate and whatever that you should be aiming for," is because every industry is different, every brand is different, every audience is different, and so I don't actually like comparing metrics with other brands.
I like to see patterns within my own brand, my own business's numbers. So if I start to see numbers go up, I'm like, "Ooh, what did we do here? Did we do something with the timing? Did we do something with the subject line? Like, what was the thing that helped us?" And then maybe I'll do some A/B testing on that to see if I can get more, more opens, right, from something that we did that we saw more opens on.
Or if I saw, like, way lower clicks on something, like no clicks at all, I'm like, "What did we do here? Was the email too long? Was the, the file size too big, and it was loading too slowly? People just gave up and didn't, you know, click through on anything?" I wanna make sure I'm paying attention to any sort of anomalies within my own numbers.
That's gonna be more informative than anything else. And let me remind you, good performance is just as informative as bad performance. So, like, making sure we pay attention to, oh, maybe a Thursday afternoon isn't the time that people wanna be getting emails from us. Like, let me make sure not to do that again.
So really, when you pay attention to those patterns, then you can start to see, okay, what's gonna be the most effective time, the most effective way, the most effective language, the most effective structure, formatting, imagery, any, any button colors, like all of those things we can start to pay attention to with our customer behavior and what they engage with.
And then just really paying attention to the conversions as well, if you're able to connect your website to your email marketing platform and start to see, like, which emails gave us some more sales, right? Because obviously, that's the whole point, and which emails, you know, people didn't really g- engage with as much.
So maybe they don't really like that topic. Maybe if we positioned it this way in a more, you know, I don't know, friendly or, or like visually different way. Again, it's all about testing with email marketing. You really just want to trial and error, unfortunately, and see what is going to work. And then again, going back to unsubscribes, like letting that go.
Unless your unsubscribe rate is like a, a 50%, that's very alarming. That's very high. Like unsubscribes are usually around like 1 to maybe 5% max. Even if you get 10%, it's like not the end of the world, but it might be something really controversial that you said that like a lot of people just didn't vibe with.
And maybe if, if you stand by it, you can, you can release those people or you can adjust your strategy. Uh, unless it's like really alarming numbers, I want you to let go of unsubscribes. Like, if you have 10 people, 20 people, it's really not the end of the world. Like, they are quite literally getting rid of themselves so that you don't have to pay for them to not do anything with your emails.
Tam: And you're recommending kind of doing that as far as the hygiene of your list- Mm ... you know, kind of doing that segmentation maybe once a quarter?
Kieryn: I would say once a quarter if you've got like a really big and really active list. If you're not sending as much and, or if you've got a smaller list, like maybe once or twice a year I think is, is enough.
Just because you do wanna give people an opportunity to see the emails that you're ... And r- I would like to also remind you, this is if you are consistently sending emails throughout the year. So if you ghosted your list, and that's okay, I promise you, I have a, I have a dating quiz right now that is like, "What kind of email marketer are you?
Are you a ghoster?" And like ghoster is the most common result that we're getting right now. So I promise you, you are not alone. You are not the only one who is ghosting your email list. But in order to get back into, um, into their lives, you know, uh, you do have to re-nurture a little bit before you're like, "Okay, so you don't want anything to do with me.
All right, goodbye."
Tam: So let's say for the, uh, listener who has been emailing consistently but really hasn't like gotten into, you know, list segmentation of how to maybe target certain, you know, profiles within their list, what's some like kind of basic low-hanging categories you recommend, you know, if you're first starting to experiment with list segmentation?
Kieryn: So with segmentation, I say this is a little bit of like a 201 email marketing topic. So like if you've got a small list and, and you're like, "I am so overwhelmed by everything you have said so far," please don't worry about segmentation just yet. But if you are feeling ready like, "Okay, I want to specifically target- this audience, um, with a very, very more personalized message," which is gonna increase your opens and your click rates, because when it's like a very specific reason that you're sending someone something, they're probably gonna be more likely to open.
With that, um, a couple easy ones to start with are segmenting the people who have maybe bought product A but not product B. And so you're saying, "Okay, you've already bought product A, here's product B, and that's gonna supplement your experience with product A." So you're gonna essentially promote the product that people haven't purchased yet to the other respective audience essentially.
That's a really great place to start. Another one that I know is coming up, uh, because holiday is coming up, is to segment the people who purchased last holiday season. Those people you can say, "Hey, like we know you bought some gifts last year, we hope you enjoyed them. Like here are the new bundles this year that we put together for you and your friends and your family and your whatever."
And you can nurture them and say like, "We noticed. We paid attention." Like we th- And even thanking them and saying, "Thank you so much for supporting us last holiday season, like it really meant a lot to us. We put..." And, and make it a little bit more of that like coming from the founder, coming from the owner, coming from you.
Um, and, and thanking them and appreciating them. But you could do so many things. Like if you're doing a pop-up in a certain city you can segment people based on location, which is, uh, the m- when I think about it, it is a little scary all the, all the ways you can segment your, your customers based off of their, um, based off of their demographics, based off of their a- um, actions or non-actions.
There's a lot of things you can do. Like if someone has opened this kind of email before and you wanna send a more like intricate tutorial on, let's say, how to put your email list together or whatever it is, and I wanna maybe target the people who opened and clicked on the last email where I talked about growing your email list, right?
Versus people who are maybe more interested in automations, I might send them a little bit s- you know, different content really geared towards their interests, geared towards what it is that they're expressing based on clicking and engagement and activity, um, that they're interested in. There's so many different ways to, to segment your audience, but if you wanted places to start, it's really understanding like have people purchased before?
Maybe you've purchased in the last, um, you haven't purchased in the last 90 days, but you've purchased before. Like I have an automation that I, you know, teach my clients and my members to use to win those people back and to say, "Hey, we miss you. Come back."
Tam: And I'm even thinking you just look at your most engaged subscribers maybe.
Yes. And you have some sort of an exclusive for, you know, but thanking them for their, you know, just being actively engaged. You know, that's not necessarily the language, but yeah, just kind of start, start simple if it's so your first... I'm thinking for myself selfishly- Yeah. Like, what should I be doing?
Kieryn: Yeah, I mean, there, there are so many things that you can do, and that is an absolutely fantastic one as well. Go in and, like, s- just start kind of playing around because I guarantee you'll find some really interesting nuggets of, like, the things you can segment out, and it'll give you some ideas for, like, messaging towards those people.
Tam: So for everything we've said, it's like just get started and take care of it like you would, you know, any relationship. You know, to be intentional, to really, you know, build into it and build, build relationship with the people that have, have opted in that they want to get to know you better.
Kieryn: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Tam: Yeah.
Kieryn: Beautifully summarized.
Tam: Yeah. Well, well, but as like, you know, for... Let's just say, you know, for the founder who has that list that has been sitting untouched, what's the first thing you'd tell them to do this week?
Kieryn: Oh, um, the first thing that I'd tell them to do is get that one welcome email up.
Okay, just, just get that one up. You can use it to build email number two in your beautiful three-email sequence when you do have the time and the energy for it. So just do that first. The next thing, it's gonna take you, like, a few minutes. The next thing I'm gonna have you do is I'm gonna have you make it really easy to find where to sign up.
Like, on your website, uh, on the footer of every single page, I want you to have that email sign-up. I want you to maybe, if you have some time and energy, create a little pop-up that happens on the first visit that, you know, gets people to sign up for the email list as well. And then, like, put the link on social media, make sure it's easy to find, and then tell people you have an email list.
Tell people where to sign up. Tell people... Make it even easier for them. Say, "Hey, drop your email in our DMs," or, "Drop them in the question box," or whatever it is, or in the comments, "and we will add you to the list." Okay, it is a little bit more work on your end, but it gets people on the list itself. And then, yeah, continuously, consistently talk about your email list.
Talk about what it is that goes on your n- in your newsletter, and what people can expect when they sign up. What are the benefits of them signing up? Do they get first access to things that they don't get on social media? Do they get all of these helpful resources that you're, you know, you're sharing in your newsletters?
Give them a little bit of a teaser. What is it that they can expect in their inbox? And then when you do have the energy, think about that lead magnet. Think, go... Rewind on this episode. I debriefed what you should have in your lead magnet. I want you to create it really quickly in Canva, it's super, super easy, and incorporate it into your welcome series.
And there you go, your email list is already starting to grow.
Tam: I love it. Love it. Let's jump into our fast five.
Kieryn: Okay.
Tam: What is one task that you have handed over to AI?
Kieryn: Uh, none of them. I refuse to hand tasks over to AI.
Tam: All right. I like it. Best advice you've ever received about sales and business development?
Kieryn: Um, I've received a lot of good advice, but what I will say that I thought first is, um, be just excited about a no as you are about a yes.
Tam: Oh, say that again.
Kieryn: Be just as excited about a no as you are about a yes.
Tam: Thank you for that reframe.
Kieryn: Yes.
Tam: Best purchase you've made for your business under $100?
Kieryn: Ooh, ooh, my ring light.
It, it, like, was, like, 20 bucks, and it sits on my desk, and, you know, when the lighting is bad, I turn it on, and I'm like, "Ooh, who is she? Hello."
Tam: And for listeners, the lighting is perfection, so.
Kieryn: Ah. Thank you.
Tam: Uh, what's always in your bag?
Kieryn: This is a recent... Like, within the last few months, I've started incorporating it always in my bag.
SPF chapstick. I always forget that your lips are also skin. I started getting some freckles on my lips, and I was like, "Oh, no, no, no. We need to be putting sunscreen on that because we cannot be walking around with unprotected skin."
Tam: And if you only had one hour each day for business growth, how would you spend it?
Kieryn: I don't know if this counts, but I think I would say mindset work. I would actually focus on mindset work. I would focus on unlearning my limiting beliefs, on, you know, tapping into my future wealthy self, living in the identity that I am trying to, uh, quantum leap into. That's the work that I would be doing, for sure.
Tam: I am aggressively nodding yes.
Kieryn: Yes.
Tam: That, that is the first, like you say, it does count absolutely. I think it is the first step to everything, is the attitude you approach everything with.
Kieryn: Absolutely.
Tam: Thank you so much for being here. There is just so much, um, rich content in this conversation that I know that I am going to immediately go back and apply.
Where can our listeners find and connect with you online?
Kieryn: Well, first of all, thank you so much for bringing me on to have this conversation. I love talking email marketing, um, which is why I also have my own podcast where I literally yap all day about business, about life, um, about how I moved to Portugal, um, and how you can do everything you want to build your dream life.
Um, it's called The Conversation Club, so you can find me yapping over there. Um, I also have a membership called The Conversion Club, um, where I teach people exactly what I've talked about today with their email marketing. We have, uh, monthly workshops. We have Q&A and implementation sessions where you can come, and I will hold your hand as you click the buttons, as you choose your email marketing platform, as you create your lead magnet, all of those wonderful things.
So, um, if you're interested in, in some extra support, you can come join us there. And I am so excited. I created this beautiful free gift as a thank you for bringing me on. Um, it's, uh, my email marketing dating quiz, and I want you to go take it, find out if you're a ghoster or find out what, uh, what, which of the types you are, and I have a beautiful personalized roadmap at the end for you to implement based on your dating style.
Um, like actual steps you can take to vamp up your email marketing and, and start reaching those customers.
Tam: Fantastic. We will be sure to link all of that in the show notes.
Kieryn: Thank you so much.
Tam: Thanks again to my guest, Kieryn Wang, for being here. Email marketing is just relationship building with your clients, and when you think about it that way, it takes some of that pressure off.
Someone who joins your email list has already raised their hand. They've given you permission to stay in touch. But just like any relationship, you still have to do something with that invitation. And I know I can make this so much harder than it needs to be. I start thinking about the lead magnet, the sequence, the segmentation, the automation, and suddenly something as simple as sending a single email becomes a whole project.
So here's your Sales as Service challenge this week. If you have people joining your email list but no welcome email or a list you haven't looked at in a very long time, start there. Write one short email. Introduce yourself. Name the problem that person is probably trying to solve. Tell them how you help.
And give them one useful next step or resource. That's it. And then get it live. Don't worry about building the three to five email sequence just yet. Don't create five new lead magnets. Don't spend three hours picking a template. One email. That's it. Because that person already said yes to continuing the conversation.
Your job is simply to continue it. And thank you for saying yes and showing up for this episode. I'll be right back here next week to continue the conversation. Until then, remember, sales is an act of service. It's about what you give, not what you get. And when you serve well, the ROI always follows. See you next week.
You've just listened to the Sales as Service podcast, the podcast to help you shift your mindset around selling.
The executive producers for this show are Jess Milanes and me, Tam Smith. This show is produced by KNWN Media and Studio Three 49.

✦ YOUR SALES AS SERVICE CHALLENGE

If your email list has been sitting untouched, your challenge this week is simple: write one welcome email and get it live.

Introduce yourself, name the problem your customer is trying to solve, and show them how your product or service can help. Keep the focus on them, keep it short, and don’t wait until you have the perfect three-email sequence, lead magnet, design, or automation.

Then make sure people can actually find your list. Add a signup to your website, share it on social, and tell people what they’ll get by joining.

You can build from there. This week, just get the first email out of your head and into their inbox.

RESOURCES & LINKS

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Find Kieryn on Instagram.
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